Tim Adams' Radio Interview With Timby Hunt: Getting Divorced Without Going to Court in Bucks County (Part 2)

NEWTOWN, PA, December 22, 2010 (Press-News.org) Tracy Timby

Well, I have stopped taking cases where the people want to litigate a divorce in Bucks County. My firm has an attorney who will handle that...it just won't be me. And I also educate people what the alternatives are in Bucks County divorces because people just don't know. Because a lot of people don't know that they have a choice. Also, with the Collaborative approach, when the attorneys sign on, you agree that, if for some reason, it breaks down, the attorneys are discharged. So I'm putting myself out there and saying, "This is the way we should do it, and if it doesn't work, you can fire me."

So there is a lot on the line in terms of transferring your practice because I've never done it for clients this way, but I firmly believe this is the only way (to divorce.) They shouldn't do it because I say so, they should look at the literature on the IACP website. I have a lot of information on my website as well. It's a growing number of people who are choosing it....I think New Jersey now, who is our neighboring state, is the third leading state in the Collaborative moment. People are doing it. It's not a crazy idea any more, or something that people wish they could do, it's happening and it's happening very successfully.

Tim Adams

We're talking today with Tracy Timby. She's an attorney, a founding member of the law firm Timby Hunt and a leading member of the Collaborative community in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. She is really among a growing number of attorneys who are changing the way that they practice law and has moved to a virtual Collaborative only practice. Tracy, one of the things that concern people or there are some criticisms of Collaborative divorce, and one of those is that somehow there is a sense among some in the profession, and maybe some members in the community that if you are going Collaborative, you are going soft...that you're really not protecting your rights and interests and that somehow you are giving up some level of control in Collaborative or some measure of your own individual rights...what's your thoughts on that?

Tracy Timby

I think Collaborative attorneys are no less an attorney than a litigation attorney. We just have different focuses. I mean the litigator focuses on the win. You just want to be the one that gets the judgment in your favor. Or you want to be the one who gets the larger slice of the pie. Or you want to be the one who won custody of the children more times then not.

In Collaborative, we are equally dedicated to the needs of our clients, we're just not looking for the win. We're looking for an overall win for the family, but maybe not just for that individual. We're looking at goals. In litigation, nobody ever asks where would you like to be five years from now. That's what we do in Collaborative divorce, and it's interesting because everybody signs a 'Participation Agreement' (the attorneys and the couple) and we meet through a series of meetings where all four people sit down and have a circular conversation. I can talk to my client's soon-to-be ex-spouse...the other attorney can talk to my client and there's not that sort of rectangular conversation that goes on where the client can only talk to the attorney...the attorney talks to the other attorney. A lot more gets done when you do it that way then when you have to filter things through each other...

Tim Adams

Right

Tracy Timby

The true meaning of the client's words are there for better or worse. It's not necessarily the whisper down the lane where the client tells the attorney, the attorney tells the other attorney, the other attorney tells the client...you get what people truly mean and, a lot of times, it's not demeaning but just the way they feel. They may say nice things. A lot of times a client will say, "Well, I think he's a good Dad," or "I think she's a good Mom." You don't get that in litigation. So the attorneys aren't soft, but there to advise the client on the law to prevent them from making (maybe) an emotional agreement or reaction by bringing in people to deal with those emotions. I think, if anything, the attorneys are better serving their clients in Collaborative because they are recognizing that this is an emotional (sic) and we need to bring in someone to handle that so that you don't make a rash decision...

Tim Adams

Right

Tracy Timby

In litigation, I don't care, make the rash decisions, whatever you want, as long as I win...I'm good.

Tim Adams

I think one of the interesting components here is that when you talk about 'getting the win,' in litigation, I get the sense, and I think a lot of the people in the collaborative movement...they're looking for the solution, and it's a significant change and what I also have a deep appreciation for in the Collaborative process is that things can be done in a Collaborative agreement that are fairly unique. There's a more collaborative solution for people in the Collaborative process because you don't have, what I would refer to as a sort of Damocles hanging over you. You know, the sense of, in a litigation process "If you don't agree with me, I'm taking you to court." So there's really no incentive for people to settle, or, if they do settle, it's a settlement that's thrust upon them, rather then them really embracing it.

Tracy Timby

Yes, and a lot of those clients are very unsatisfied and they end up back in court even after the divorce decree is issued because they've had something imposed on them. They've had a third party judge or master tell them what's going to happen to all of their assets, what we're going to do with all the liabilities and, even worse, what's going to happen to their children. Where are their children going to be? How much time they get to spend with their children? And they really don't take into account what's going on in reality. They only look at what's there in the courtroom presented them that day or over a couple of days or what an evaluator maybe said something was worth or what their children should do or things like that. It really is a much more satisfying experience I think and they don't end up spending money post-divorce going back into court because they are really unhappy with something that was imposed on them.

Tim Adams

Last night you and I attended a meeting of the mid-Jersey Collaborative law alliance and the premier speaker was Linda Tiff who was a guest on this show last week. And she talked about the number of cases that she handled and she said that just recently, over a period of 24 months, she's had over 100 Collaborative cases and that two came back for post-judgment relief or some sort of level of relief from the original agreement and she said that both of them resolved them in Collaborative without having to go to court. To me that really demonstrates the power of the Collaborative process because now the decisions are not being thrust upon people, they're agreed upon....they're worked out. And I think that with your level of counseling, you're bringing something, I think, fairly unique to the table. But having said that, in the Collaborative process...tell us a little bit about who else is involved at the table. We know the two attorneys are, the clients are. We know that when they sign the 'Participation Agreement'...but who else can participate on an as-needs basis within the 4-way meeting?

Tracy Timby

Well, the Collaborative is unique. I have a couple now, who is actually in mediation. The wife has never had a budget. She's going to be living on her own, setting up her own household...she's never lived on a budget. She doesn't know how to do that. So I have her set up with an accountant just through the mediation process. But in Collaborative we can bring in that accountant into the room with the attorneys and the parties and they can do a cash flow analysis and say, "Ok folks, this is how much you have. If you want to go live in a townhouse you have X amount to spend per month." And give them some direction so that they have the knowledge to make an informed decision instead of, "I'll just take 60% of the cash from the house and go out and buy a house. And then we can also bring in financial advisors to say, "Maybe you don't want to take your $300,000 and put it all in real estate because real estate is only going to appreciate X and if we invested it here, in 10 years you're going to have a lot more money then if you put it into a house."

We can also bring in divorce coaches. Maybe one or both of the parties are struggling with the fact that either the divorce is happening, which a lot of times that does happen. One person has made up their mind. They have contemplated it. This is not a decision that somebody wakes up one morning and says, "I'm gonna get divorced!" They've thought it over...they've thought out, maybe counseling on their own and they make a decision. Their spouse finds out the day they tell them, so they're a little bit further behind in terms of accepting that the divorce is going to happen, and the nice thing in Collaborative is we can get a divorce coach involved to help the couple get kind of on the same page before we move forward. In litigation, I don't care if you are not on the same page. I'm going to serve a divorce complaint on you and, You know what, you'd better get with it or we're just gonna run you over." So, it is a much better way because we can bring in these other professionals to assist, in that same vein, the client's money is spent more effectively. They are going to get more for their dollars. It is more cost effective...it is not the cheap divorce. It is a better way to divorce. Your money is spent with the people who the jobs the best way possible. Like anything else...it costs money to get a divorce.

Tim Adams

Right. Well, in the end, when you bring in additional folks, additional resources to help you...For instance in the litigated process, if there is a business involved, the husband hires a business evaluation expert, the wife hires a business evaluation expert, they try to come to some sort of a middle ground and a lot of time effort and money is spent the acceptability of each report.

Tracy Timby

RIGHT! Business evaluations can be hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the size of the business. I mean the couple could spend $200,000 on each lining up their own business evaluator and you go to a master's hearing, and I kid you not, the master will take the wife's evaluation at X thousand and the husbands at Y thousand...they just average them! And they say, "Let's call it Z." That's how it works. And now they have spent $200,000 to get to that point. Whereas, in Collaborative, they can say, "OK, we have a business, we have to get it evaluated, agree on this business, who's going to run it and get the information they need to make an informed decision.

Tim Adams

So, this is how it becomes more cost effective, because then it's not only we'll hire two business evaluators reduced now down to one it can be let's hire one child psychologist. Let's hire one other person that can be valuable. And this is where I think things turn very unique in Collaborative, is that the client, in going back to my original thought, the client gains more control. The client has control over cost. The client has control over decisions that they make. They're not giving control away. They have tremendous legal advice next to them. They have attorneys now, that instead of being adversaries, they are now colleagues. So now the atmosphere is now totally changed to work on a more comprehensive and more substantial way to resolve problems or creative way to resolve their problems.

Tracy Timby

And I can say with confidence that if you spend six hours in a Collaborative divorce, you are getting way more done then if you spend six hours sitting at a courthouse waiting for it to be resolved.

Tim Adams

So Tracy, in the last minute here, there's two things I'd like to know. Number one, what type of client do you really like to work with and how would they get in touch with you so that if they wanted your advice and they could hear you and talk to you.

Tracy Timby

I really like working with families where there are children involved. I think Collaborative can be beneficial for couples who don't have children as well and also you can use the Collaborative process for prenuptials. I'm a big advocate of "Let's lay it on the line before we get married. So that in the event that we have to get divorced, a lot of things are already set out." But my particular specialty would be with families with children, I think because of my counseling background.

Tim Adams

Sure, so, how do they reach you?

Tracy Timby

Our telephone number is 215-968-6886. We are right on State Street in Newtown and they can also see us on the web at www.timbyhunt.com and on Facebook or Twitter.

Tim Adams

Tracy, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it and we'll talk to you all next week.